Expedition Expedition Navigation Software

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



3/26/2017 6:31 pm  #1


Protest Backup from Log File

Just had an unfortunate encounter in a beer can when a 5.5 meter on Port under spinnaker decided to gybe in front of us (on Starboard close hauled), necessitating severe maneuvers in a 10 ton, full keel yawl with <4 kts TWS. 
Scrubbing off 2 kts of SOG, took us a whole minute to regain as well as a minute of thrashing about. 

We will see what credence the log file gets with protest committee, it backs up the narrative regarding avoidance. 

Anyone else use Exp in this fashion? 



 


Semiconductor Development Engineer, Retired Viticulturalist, Occasional sailor
"Lioness" 1962 Hinckley Bermuda 40 Custom Yawl
 

3/30/2017 3:45 am  #2


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

Sheldon
This is a really interesting one, and not well tested with (IMExperience) local committees.  I've been there twice.  If you take it on, be ready for a short (3 dot points explanation of what they are looking at) and I'd make two BIG points:
a) If the facts stack the way you say they do, the onus of proof is on the other guy, not you.  SO if your objective is to get him a DSQ, then what's in your Exp track is irrelevant - so unless the local 5.5s use AIS, ours certainly don't, and you can do the whole two track thing - so state your case and let the other side fluster.  Bring technical shit in only if it impresses the PC;
b) Just say you were going for redress for yacht materially prejudiced - and I don't think you are - then the calculus of the track might just work .... local PC'd be blown away by that.  But they'd have to disqualify the other guys first and the consider that second..
At least after a day flying in aeroplanes and now in a cab hoping the driver will STFU, that's my best call.
Cheers

 

3/31/2017 3:35 pm  #3


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

Duncan, 
not seeking redress, it was a beer can, doubt it was enough to change the 4 min gap outcome in my fleet, but was damn frustrating to lose all that momentum. Not worried about winning protest per se, this is to make the overt point that if you intentionally gybe in front of a 10 ton boat in light air, you deserve to be crushed.

Rather than sink the bastard, I'll settle for his DSQ and humiliation. 

Our likely PC chair is the guy who did the jibeset.net database, and has an interest in such stuff, so I have already sent an annotated log file to all parties as "evidence" that I wish to bring in

His counter protest is that I didn't hail or post flag "promptly", which is easily refutable, as I have a LOUD voice, and my log file will show > 20 seconds of maximum rudder both sides to avoid and resume course which would be a means of establishing when a "reasonable opportunity" period was starting. Enough people witnessed my "Moby Dick" imitation when I hung my scarlet shirt in the mizzen rigging and completed the leg shirtless. 


FWIW.
This is part of the reason I am also looking at getting a Garmin VIRB as a Dashcam, and looking into using VLC to display it, time lapse video adds a certain credibility. 
 
to make it even easier, if our esteemed author noodled up a timestamp interface, then one could have a single point of control to replay the synched log/chart and video windows. That could be pretty convincing.   


Semiconductor Development Engineer, Retired Viticulturalist, Occasional sailor
"Lioness" 1962 Hinckley Bermuda 40 Custom Yawl
     Thread Starter
 

4/01/2017 2:38 am  #4


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

Sheldon: Moby dick impressions aside, did you fly a red flag along with your shirt? If not you are on shaky ground before you need to worry about the admissibility of log files.

The rules require that a red flag must be shown at the first reasonable opportunity, and must be flown until crossing the finishing line for that race. Offhand I'm not sure if there is a written definition or case to support this technicality but the interpretation from an IJ is that a red flag must be exactly that: Red, and a flag.

 

4/01/2017 5:55 am  #5


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

Ben, the shirt is flamboyant red, and was "flown conspicuously at first reasonable opportunity" per 61.1.A

Whether a shirt can be a flag is another discussion. I don't sail beer cans expecting to protest, with a code B pre positioned under a shroud on my rig, as is common in some OD fleets.

I searched current case book but could not find specifics on what flag or conspicuous means.  As we are a Yawl, the main backstay is not as distinct a location as on a sloop. I used starboard mizzen forward shroud

I recall in years gone by the size of the flag needed to be reasonable for the boat, as with burgers and ensigns.

For a 12 m boat, a 2XL shirt nearly a meter long, seems a sensible size.  The RYA inch of fly per foot of length rule for ensigns.


Semiconductor Development Engineer, Retired Viticulturalist, Occasional sailor
"Lioness" 1962 Hinckley Bermuda 40 Custom Yawl
     Thread Starter
 

4/01/2017 8:38 am  #6


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

See RYA case 2001/13 'a glove cannot be a protest flag', and
WS case 72 'Discussion of the word 'flag'

 

4/03/2017 7:40 pm  #7


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

See Ussailing appeal 66:
" the strip of red cloth qualifed as a protest  flag in the context of rule 61.1(a) because it was a red  flag. However, rule 61.1(a) also requires a boat to “conspicuously display” the protest  flag.  is requirement is necessary to inform other boats in the race, as well as the boat to be protested, that a boat intends to protest.
The phrase “conspicuously display” must be interpreted in the context of the size of the boat displaying the  flag . An object that is conspicuous is not merely visible; it “catches one’s eye or a ention” or is “obvious to the eye or mind” (dictionary references). Whether the  ag is displayed conspicuously depends on a number of considerations, such as the place on the boat from which the  ag is displayed, its proximity to other objects of the same or a similar color, and the size of the  ag in relation to the size of the boat. On a 40-foot boat a 2 inch by 8 inch  ag is too small to be conspicuous. In this case, the  flag’s proportions also detracted from the conspicuousness of its display"

As noted shirt met the 1" per foot of length guide.


Semiconductor Development Engineer, Retired Viticulturalist, Occasional sailor
"Lioness" 1962 Hinckley Bermuda 40 Custom Yawl
     Thread Starter
 

4/04/2017 12:01 am  #8


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

A red fabric rectangle sounds a lot like a red flag, Whether or not that flag is conspicuous is another issue.
A shirt of a conspicuous size is still a shirt.

I dont want to dwell on this, But most protests are thrown out on technicalities long before the specifics you are interested in so its worthwhile considering them.

 

4/04/2017 8:17 pm  #9


Re: Protest Backup from Log File

Ben,

Been there, seen that. The results of protest won't change standings in any case.

Will go find my "B" flag and bend on the hoist for the next race.


Semiconductor Development Engineer, Retired Viticulturalist, Occasional sailor
"Lioness" 1962 Hinckley Bermuda 40 Custom Yawl
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum

Zapfware NMEARemote by Zapfware. Remote access to Expedition Channels from iPad and iPhone devices