Expedition Expedition Navigation Software

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



1/12/2017 4:00 pm  #1


Impact of marks on Optimal Route

I am trying to understand how marks on the course impact optimal route as I am not seeing what I expect so I figure I must be doing something wrong.

I am using the software in the VR Vendee Globe as a way to learn it better.  I am using 10.4.17 4D

I am currently @ 27 48N 28 55w. @ 19:00 EST Jan 12, 2017

I have a course set from my position to the finish off les sables, france.  With no marks other than start and finish it gives me 1 suggested course.  If I place a middle mark just off the northern tip of Spain and tell it to leave mark to starboard. It gives me a different course.  It gives the mark 150nm of buoy room which makes it irrelevant (as it should) but the optimal course is still different.  If the mark is irrelevant why the different course.?
If I place an additional mark (closer to my starting point, also to leave to starboard  but place it in such a way to force my boat to go further west than the suggested optimal course it gives me a different course (expected) but also faster than either of the other 2 previously optimized course.

There is a 6 hour spread in finish times between the 3 courses.  All were run using the same start time and within approx. 5 minutes of each other when plotted.

All with NOAA GFS Model for 01/12/17 18:00.

I'm scratching my head as to what setting or process I am messing up on so any input would be appreciated.

Thanks


 

 

1/12/2017 4:11 pm  #2


Re: Impact of marks on Optimal Route

Hi, This will be a good one for Nick to answer but I can tell you what I have found in practice. It is possible to get a different result when you have a mark left to one side in the middle of a route. In general, I find the routings stay further away from the new mark than in the absence of that mark. I find that the use of Race Notes over land and areas you are trying to avoid works better than additional waypoints. So as a general rule use as few waypoints as possible. In the situation you are describing it can be instructive to look at the reverse and normal isochones and to shade the routing (with different times eg 15 min then 60 min) to see what is going on. It can be that two very different routes have similar times. If you are using a current GRIB, stop using this to see if this changes the routings. Hope this helps.
Cheers, Will.

 

1/12/2017 4:26 pm  #3


Re: Impact of marks on Optimal Route

At your suggestion I removed the current gribs I was using.  With just start and finish I get 1 course.  This time when I added the mark at the tip of Spain, it pulled the first half of the course east and shortened it by 3 hours. (I also thought it was the reversed when I ran it earlier)  I experimented with moving this extra mark up and down the length of the course and where it was didn't seem to matter, it always gave me the same approx. course. And all were 3 hours faster (I hope) then if I ran it with no mark. 

     Thread Starter
 

1/12/2017 6:59 pm  #4


Re: Impact of marks on Optimal Route

Good question!
Here's my guess....
If the isochrones were perfect circles the opts would probably be the same. That would only occur if your polars were only 1 speed no matter what the wind was doing.

As soon as you plug various polar speeds and various winds in, the isochrones are no longer perfect circles So the isochrones and the reverse isochrones would no longer meet at the center of the course. Normal circumstance

When you put in a third midmark the program points the isochronal circle toward that mark even though the program 'knows' you don't have to go 'to' it. (Pointing the polar at the mark would be the normal way of doing it.)  but because the isochrones are not perfect circles, the polar driven shape when pointed at Mark 2 vs. Mark 3 give a different solution.

As Will mentioned, the better way in this situation would be using the Race Note to make sure the Opt went on the water side of Spain!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it (For you Yanks)
Cheers,
Ernie

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum


Interested in advertising here? Over a thousand active navigators and Expedition users visit this forum. Click here to contact the administrator.